Curse

Siirius Black · Feb 04, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Penalization is the right word for it, it simply doesn't have the drawbacks it needs, like loot scaling.

PvE skills are made so you have a easier time doing something, not so you can have 3 PvE skills all the time and wtfpnzer the game in 1 hour. No need to change any OP PvE skills then, cause this would simply balance it out.

If you go fast or slow in the game is a matter of choice. It is not up to me to tell other people how they should play PvE. If it was PvP then that would be another matter. But PvE in itself is made for you to enjoy it the way you want.

When EOTN first came out, I read some of the postings from some people that finished the game in 3 or 4 hours. They wanted to be the first to complete it. It was their decision, event though later they complained that EOTN was too short. I took my time to complete the game because I like to explore everything. Again a matter of choice.

If some people like to use PvE skills, let them. I use them too sometimes. If there are other people who can do the same thing without PvE skills then good for them.

I do agree that some skills needed to be balanced like Ursan, but that does not have anything to do with the rest.

Xsiriss · Feb 04, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

/signed for MORE loot in a pve skill areas, promotes h/hing which is what a vast majority of people do.
/notsigned for the retarded ideas of making pve skills decrease loot, it's not a high drop rate as it is.

Hailey Anne · Feb 04, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Despite what most people think, Anet does not make changes to the game based on farming. Sometimes it seems that way due to changes in the economy that certain farming can cause, but that isn't a change made on farming specifically, it is a change to fix a specific skill or monster grouping. I don't farm often, but ALL of my farming builds (Monk and Necro both) do so in HM and neither character uses PvE skills for the farming builds. As noted, Earth Elems and Sins don't need PvE skills to farm either.

So all this would do is upset the people who want to use PvE skills to have more fun, get things done easier, and find teams faster. All this idea does is cater to the farmers, which I think you are trying to do the opposite. By dropping PvE skills (which are not needed for many farming builds) you would just increase the speed at which farmers earn their money. Bots would probably send you a fruitcake at Christmas this year.

For once I agree with you.
Although they do change things in game due to farming.
UW mindblades changed because of solo sin farming.
Shadowform changed itself because of UW farming.(and other areas but mostly from UW because of ectos)

Dmitri3 · Feb 04, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siirius Black

If you go fast or slow in the game is a matter of choice. It is not up to me to tell other people how they should play PvE. If it was PvP then that would be another matter. But PvE in itself is made for you to enjoy it the way you want.

When EOTN first came out, I read some of the postings from some people that finished the game in 3 or 4 hours. They wanted to be the first to complete it. It was their decision, event though later they complained that EOTN was too short. I took my time to complete the game because I like to explore everything. Again a matter of choice.

If some people like to use PvE skills, let them. I use them too sometimes. If there are other people who can do the same thing without PvE skills then good for them.

I do agree that some skills needed to be balanced like Ursan, but that does not have anything to do with the rest.

Right, because people who don't use PvE skills are not punished for doing so? You get less drops simply because you take longer to kill.

PvE skills make it go faster - but less drops. More drops without PvE skills - but it takes slower to get them. Thus it's basically balanced.

Don't have to decrease drop rate if you insisnt, just increase the drop rate for doing no-pve skills and that's all.

dusty4444 · Feb 04, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

/notsigned
Sometimes when I play with my friends we all take "I am the strongest!" and just have fun shouting that (not really using the skill for it's efect,sometimes even our monk takes it xD ) and geting a penalty in drops only for that, or getting less drops than a player who chose to take a usefull skill (tho non-pve only) would be a double penalty for us... Anything like this would just ruin the fun (if there's any left) for alot of players.

MasterSasori · Feb 04, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Disable PvE to gain more loot? So why have PvE skills in the first place? Having people use skills that are not PvE skills certainly don't make them much better or enough to gain experience in PvP. This is mostly another way to hate on Ursan, which needs to be balanced.

/notsigned

Improvavel · Feb 04, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Right, because people who don't use PvE skills are not punished for doing so? You get less drops simply because you take longer to kill.

What if I use stupid builds like mending/healing hands warriors that kill slow as ass? Should I also get more drops?

R.Shayne · Feb 04, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Make another button with [Hardmode Without PvE Skill] that will result in more loot cause you are fighting longer to kill . balance it

This suggestion would completely kill off what is left of a dead economy. Farmers would love this suggestion. Just think of the poor raptors that would die because of this suggestion.

Example: CoF runs no pve skills used, most don't even pickup whites and unless it is a max damage req 8 weapon or an armor drop I don't even pick up blues. Implement this suggestion and people will be picking up only gold drops. Would have to forgo hidden treasure but be a quick way to max wisdom.

/NOT SIGNED!!!

kostolomac · Feb 04, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Right, because people who don't use PvE skills are not punished for doing so? You get less drops simply because you take longer to kill.

PvE skills make it go faster - but less drops. More drops without PvE skills - but it takes slower to get them. Thus it's basically balanced.

Don't have to decrease drop rate if you insisnt, just increase the drop rate for doing no-pve skills and that's all.

You do know that you get the most drops by farming and not by just playing the game, and 90% of farming builds don't use pve skills , or if they use them they are not the core of the build.
That would be a paradise for farmers.

Dmitri3 · Feb 04, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

You do know that you get the most drops by farming and not by just playing the game, and 90% of farming builds don't use pve skills , or if they use them they are not the core of the build.
That would be a paradise for farmers.

Meh, originally I said to decrease the loot when using PvE skills, but PvE'ers whine. And now they complain when I say increase? Seriously.
The loot scaling doesn't even need to be that big.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

What if I use stupid builds like mending/healing hands warriors that kill slow as ass? Should I also get more drops?

Running stupid build and not running PvE skills is 2 totally different things.

Oh well, grind before skill. GO GO GO!

P.S. I don't give a shit about farmers or loot. I was actually hoping that people would learn to play the game better instead of always relying on PvE skills. But oh well, guess everyone is of different opinion.

dusty4444 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

I was actually hoping that people would learn to play the game better instead of always relying on PvE skills. But oh well, guess everyone is of different opinion.

Not all people want to "learn to play the game better", some only want to have fun even if they suck at it. The end result to any game should be that people have fun.

JASON626 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

leaning toward /not signed.

PvE skills to me just speed up whatever your doing, VFF, vanquishing, dungeon end chests, elite mission end chest etc.

Not many people care what loots droping along the way when the goal is something else.

only thing is farmers farming ectos/gems loot drops.

Dmitri3 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty4444

Not all people want to "learn to play the game better", some only want to have fun even if they suck at it. The end result to any game should be that people have fun.

Well, here's my take on cheat codes, oh sorry, I mean PvE skills. In Single Player games, you can use a cheat code to get past if you're not good enough. But are you having fun when you're just skipping ALL the game with "godmode" cheat? Not just the part you can't get past. Certainly not me... and according to most polls, most people lose interest in a game as soon as they start using cheats (it raises interest in game for a day and then it drops altogether).

So, PvE skills are equivalent to cheats in single player. The only thing is, they're affecting the economy... and yes, other people's experiences affect you because they drive the prices down or up. So, if you want to use cheats, items need to go down so not to affect those who don't want to cheat - frankly, no one cares whenever you use PvE skills or not, it's just there needs to be an insensitive not to use them... but no, instead you're punishing people who don't cheat.

dusty4444 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

If you don't want to use pve skills go play pvp or simply DON'T use them. Though other player should make theyr own decisions and shouldn't be obliged to play as other see fit.

kostolomac · Feb 04, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Well, here's my take on cheat codes, oh sorry, I mean PvE skills.

There are only 2 problematic pve skills , the rest aren't anything special. Stop blowing things out of proportion. Using them doesn't equal cheating because there are far more powerful regular skills.
Also , people won't magically become better if they use only regular skills.

And about the economy , prices will always go down. Thankfully money doesn't grant you skill ,ability to play or an advantage in GW so I don't care about money.

Kattar · Feb 04, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Let's make sure and keep in on topic, guys. The PvE vs. PvP argument is in Riverside currently. I'm sure there's a topic about the economy in there as well.

Improvavel · Feb 04, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

So, PvE skills are equivalent to cheats in single player. The only thing is, they're affecting the economy... and yes, other people's experiences affect you because they drive the prices down or up. So, if you want to use cheats, items need to go down so not to affect those who don't want to cheat - frankly, no one cares whenever you use PvE skills or not, it's just there needs to be an insensitive not to use them... but no, instead you're punishing people who don't cheat.

First - weapon/armor skins have no influence in this game - a torment sword kills exactly the same as a flamberge (and the flamberge is better looking IMO to boot).

So once again this is another "only about 5 players in every 100 should do area X and get item skin Y, so I can show off in front of the lesser mortals".

Second - ANET introduced HM to make NM easier after the "AoE scatter" nerf (OMG GWs was so easy when it came out - THE MOBS STAYED IN AOE FOR THE FULL DURATION). This led to PvE skills being introduced by the legal owners of the game, hence not a cheat. Cheaters are banned.

Dmitri3 · Feb 04, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Okay, no PvP stuff.

My argument on duping 1000 armbraces still stands though. It did affect players who actually earned it the hard way, same as PvE skills are affecting the people who are not using PvE skills. You need to use PvE skills if you actually want to to play and earn something out of it.

Okay, so money doesn't affect your experience, then why /not-sign? Your argument doesn't hold much water.

------
EDIT for no double post:

Improvavel, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheatin...es)#Cheat_code
Really, cheaters are banned?

Improvavel · Feb 04, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Okay, no PvP stuff.

My argument on duping 1000 armbraces still stands though. It did affect players who actually earned it the hard way,

Again it didn't.

This isn't real world. This game isn't based on items. This game isn't work.

I did and do DoA because it is fun - it is fun to overcome the challenges, it is fun to finally get ur armbrace or your Mallyx.

I know that are some poor souls that need admiration and love of the others, so they will dupe and cheat to get those things, but it is sweet, because most of the player base (besides some kids) knows that those skins, those titles mean nothing.

I don't need people to have tags to have an opinion about them.

So returning to your argument, someone duped armbraces, so what?

Didn't you feel good when you got your armbrace based in your effort? Or do you need recognition from other people too?

carnage-runner · Feb 04, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

End Vanquish chest after HM w/o PVP skills. That would make it more appealing.. Otherwise it's just a vanquish that's a little harder....